The use case that was most problematic for me was google meets. Having the same meeting open in two windows has you actually in the meeting in one window and at the "Ready to join?" page in another. If you close the "Ready to join?" page on the second window, then it disconnects your from the meeting in the first window. If you leave it open, then the second window will eventually start dinging asking "Are you still there?". Again, if you close this tab in the second window, it will disconnect you from the meeting in the first.
Ironically enough, google meets is also my primary reason for using multiple windows. I prefer to have the meeting open in one window and notes, web searches, email, slack, etc. in another. I recognize that I could use the pop-out video or split view feature, but given that the pop-out is always on top (and I usually leave it toward the top center of my screen so that it looks like I'm looking at the camera), it's difficult to navigate around. Furthermore, it takes a few seconds to pop-in/pop-out if I accidentally scroll into that tab with Ctrl + Opt + Up/Down. Split view doesn't fare much better since the second pane is tied to the tab.
The easiest solution I've found so far is simply alt-tabbing between windows, which is instantaneous, doesn't "refresh" anything, and lets me control the sizing independently of everything else.
Please make this an optional setting. I understand that users have a strong preference for syncing tabs, whereas I have a strong preference for not syncing tabs. Can't we make everyone happy here with a setting?
I'm sorry but I absolutely hate this. I remember when I found out Arc finally stop doing the sharing thing, I was so happy and poked friends around me to tell them about this great change in Arc. Imagine the same but reverse happened to me today.
The reasoning for me for _NOT_ syncing the tab is because Tabs are not just simply a URL. Each tab is an instantiation of a URL _AND_ the transient state as we interact with the page. Syncing tabs across window makes that distinction go away, if you go to that tab in another window. It reloads the tab with the same URL but with different state: imagine it's a YouTube video, now you have two copy of the same video playing, imagine it's Twitter and you lost the composing tweet and timeline position, etc. Even if we actually move the tab instance around to different windows, it does not map to the OS's window concept for me -- each window should be a brand new workspace for me (and in browser's context, I do expect the cookies / credentials to be carried over but not the browsing state).
What's confusing to me is that, we reversed the decision without actually fixing any of the original problem at all. Arc sadly went back to the state months ago that I do not enjoy now.
Appreciate the transparency on this decision process. The use case that gets me is:
- start composing something (e.g a tweet), realize I need to look something up so open a new window
- finish looking up what I was looking for, notice twitter tab, switch to it
- twitter tab out of sync, has lost my in progress post
- close it
- realize this was being edited in the other window
I guess I wonder if there is truly one window to rule them all, why let us open another window? Maybe if we couldn’t do that it would force using the features as designed- split tabs, switch over, etc?
Even so, there are so many times when I just want a new window to quickly look something up and discard it I wonder if that could be addresses better in a Arc like way somehow.
I was happy when you has stopped syncing the tabs. When I use a multi-monitor set up — one for coding, one for Google/ChatGPT — I would constantly get confused what was I working on and where. Maybe that's a good thing but I'd edit something in this window and it would show up separately in the second window. It did irritate me a lot. I wonder why not have a simple toggle to choose? "Sync tabs between windows — yes or no?"
I'm definitely in the camp of wanting the tabs to sync between windows, in part because I really want them to sync between devices. If I move from my MacBook Air to my iMac, I want to see the same tabs—pinned and Today.
I do feel that there's more that can be done in this area. Like some others, I use multiple monitors, and Arc has some issues there (bugs with Command-Option-N not getting keyboard focus depending on which screen you're on, what's happening in Arc, etc). I use Little Arc heavily, but Little Arc windows are just too ephemeral—a click in my email app takes over whatever was there if I'd moved something to the other screen so I could refer to it while writing. And yes, I do use Split View, but that can't extend across desktops in a reliable way, so a second window is necessary.
I find dragging out a second window to be helpful but awkward, since it's always the same size as my main (very large) window, which is always too big for a secondary reference window. So resizing is a requirement there.
Personally, I'm disappointed in this reversion but I understand that both states are less than ideal.
This was a huge pain point for me with Google Meet where I would have multiple windows open, while in a meeting.
I would see a call in my non-active meet window, thinking that it's a separate set of tab state and close it only to be disconnected from the call.
Worse yet is Confluence where I might be editing in one page while referencing some information in another window. I'll accidentally open the edit tab in another window which starts a second session in the multiplayer editor. That or close a tab in a secondary window which then closes my exisiting edits in my primary window
I'm not sure I understand how having shared tabs is more similar to existing browsers. Isn't this breaking away from everyone's existing mental models? I mean, syncing between mobile and desktop I get but not between windows. Perhaps I'm misremembering something after having used Arc for more than a year now.
Anyway, I recall that this made Arc miserable to use (like 1000 little cuts that aren't enough to make you leave) so I sort of dread a return back and also don't understand why this can't be a toggle. I suppose because more toggles means more surface area for issues to arise.
That said, maybe my workflow is just plain wrong and I need to rethink it. I probably would like to use just one window except when cross-referencing a lot of information where you can only get so far with split view.
Thanks for the considered update and sharing the product thinking though!
While I understand the intent might have been to provide a seamless experience, this feature has been significantly impeding my productivity. Often, I find myself accidentally closing a tab in one window, only to realize that it was a tab I intended to keep open in another. The lag that occurs due to this syncing further slows down my work.
One of the primary advantages of having independent windows is the ability to manage separate tasks or projects. The current synchronization defeats that purpose. If the tabs in both windows mirror each other, it diminishes the very essence of what makes two windows beneficial.
Would't it be more feasible to instead introduce a setting to either use synchronisation or disable it?
I genuinely appreciate the innovative features your team consistently introduces to enhance user experience. However, I believe reconsidering this particular feature would be in the best interest of users seeking efficient multitasking capabilities.
I sent a long feedback to Arc about the Tab Syncing. Tab Syncing breaks the browser for me, as it adds clutter and makes tabs really difficult to find.
It creates spaces (window) in spaces (Space) in spaces (tabs), and makes everything really confusing. The single "synced" tab might have just as many states as you have windows open. I mainly use 3-4 windows with different tab sets, but now as all the windows look the same, tabs might not even fit in the tab bar for quick navigating. Quick navigation and clarity is key here.
Let's take an example of having 3 displays with 3 Arc windows open and just googling something. It creates the Google tab in every window. Then if I need that information to stay on the window I originally googled it in, I don't need to access it from another window because it's already open.
Yes, I know, I could use spaces for every window, but as I open and close windows every now and then, changing the space after opening would be really cumbersome. I like to think that windows are spaces itself.
I understand Arc wants to differentiate from other browsers, but in my opinion it's different enough even without the Tab Syncing. I'm hoping this could be an option, but understand that it adds complexity in development. But still...
The solution is Little Arc. But it is too volatile when you're limited to one. Too many tabs get lost due to forcefully integrating all newcomers into a single 'Little' box.
Surely, when something is 'Little', you can hold many of them.
> But doesn't this mean too many windows?
No, because they're not full-fledged windows. They're floating tabs.
Each one is connected to the Space that summoned it, sitting in the Today tabs section.
Little Arc's "Open in [Space]" becomes "Move to..." when you want to Pin it or change Spaces.
Little Arc should then follow the Space's colour. Even now, it's always associated with a Space anyway, but hides this fact.
Because Little Arc was never this 'neutral' ground like a No Man's Zone, but it feels like it's trying to be.
It ends up acting like the one overzealous guard at the city-gates who processes way more entrants than he can handle, and drops the ball a lot.
Let there be multiplicity of Little Arcs for every Space, and account for them in Today's tabs, and maybe it reduces the need for producing another blank-slate Arc, aka. an entire temporary city outside the walls.
Thanks for reverting the change. I think both windowing approaches can work but they require changes to help alleviate the tradeoffs. These tradeoffs being made are absolutely spot on with my Arc experience.
Something small that could help make the synced tabs better (besides the suggested improvements): allow folders in the "Today" section and do not sync their open/close state across windows. This can help alleviate some of the clutter that can occur with the synced tabs.
Holly molly! I've lost so many tabs I guess that in two occurrences. I've felt very very bad about it. But I'm very glad and relieved that it wasn't an specific misusage by me and that you guys have been looking at it. Thanks for the transparency and keep up the good work! 😄
Nooo, I hate having the same tabs opened on every single windows, it's one of the things I hate the most in ARC, and I use it 12h a day every days. I used to have one "purpose" by window, but now it's not possible anymore because it's now just a big mess with all my tabs all around. What's even the point of having multiple windows then? Wait, what's the point of having multiple desktops on mac then? PRODUCTIVITY FFS. They removed the ability to create a "New Blank Window" and now they remove the use of having multiple windows altogether. wtf? Do I really have to go back on Chrome just for that? I've been using ARC for almost a year now, and the more time passes, the more they remove the features that made me use ARC in the first place. Sad to see.
One more thing. Don't remove features while expecting users to use other features that fulfils the need "better" in your opinion when those are hidden from him. You cannot expect users to use ARC "correctly" the way you designed it just because you want it, that's not how UX works. Users should not need to read a guide or watch a 30minutes video on how the browser works. The interface should speak by itself and make the user use what's the best for him because it's designed this way, not the opposite. And remember that ppl will report you the things they don't like, not the opposite. So wait for the ppl that don't like this revert to be the majority now. Are you gonna reverse it again and again and again? Or will you think like designers and allow users to decide in the settings? Both versions are developed, both works, and both are liked and hated by different users. Once you introduced them both, you split the community between the ones that like and depend on it and the others. It's your fault and your responsibility to find a fix, not choose a side.
Be inclusive, like the "One browser to rule them all" should be.
The use case that was most problematic for me was google meets. Having the same meeting open in two windows has you actually in the meeting in one window and at the "Ready to join?" page in another. If you close the "Ready to join?" page on the second window, then it disconnects your from the meeting in the first window. If you leave it open, then the second window will eventually start dinging asking "Are you still there?". Again, if you close this tab in the second window, it will disconnect you from the meeting in the first.
Ironically enough, google meets is also my primary reason for using multiple windows. I prefer to have the meeting open in one window and notes, web searches, email, slack, etc. in another. I recognize that I could use the pop-out video or split view feature, but given that the pop-out is always on top (and I usually leave it toward the top center of my screen so that it looks like I'm looking at the camera), it's difficult to navigate around. Furthermore, it takes a few seconds to pop-in/pop-out if I accidentally scroll into that tab with Ctrl + Opt + Up/Down. Split view doesn't fare much better since the second pane is tied to the tab.
The easiest solution I've found so far is simply alt-tabbing between windows, which is instantaneous, doesn't "refresh" anything, and lets me control the sizing independently of everything else.
Please make this an optional setting. I understand that users have a strong preference for syncing tabs, whereas I have a strong preference for not syncing tabs. Can't we make everyone happy here with a setting?
One of reasons I love Arc so much is the building-in-public way. I noticed that you use the word ‘member’ instead of ’user’, may I ask why?
I'm sorry but I absolutely hate this. I remember when I found out Arc finally stop doing the sharing thing, I was so happy and poked friends around me to tell them about this great change in Arc. Imagine the same but reverse happened to me today.
The reasoning for me for _NOT_ syncing the tab is because Tabs are not just simply a URL. Each tab is an instantiation of a URL _AND_ the transient state as we interact with the page. Syncing tabs across window makes that distinction go away, if you go to that tab in another window. It reloads the tab with the same URL but with different state: imagine it's a YouTube video, now you have two copy of the same video playing, imagine it's Twitter and you lost the composing tweet and timeline position, etc. Even if we actually move the tab instance around to different windows, it does not map to the OS's window concept for me -- each window should be a brand new workspace for me (and in browser's context, I do expect the cookies / credentials to be carried over but not the browsing state).
What's confusing to me is that, we reversed the decision without actually fixing any of the original problem at all. Arc sadly went back to the state months ago that I do not enjoy now.
Appreciate the transparency on this decision process. The use case that gets me is:
- start composing something (e.g a tweet), realize I need to look something up so open a new window
- finish looking up what I was looking for, notice twitter tab, switch to it
- twitter tab out of sync, has lost my in progress post
- close it
- realize this was being edited in the other window
I guess I wonder if there is truly one window to rule them all, why let us open another window? Maybe if we couldn’t do that it would force using the features as designed- split tabs, switch over, etc?
Even so, there are so many times when I just want a new window to quickly look something up and discard it I wonder if that could be addresses better in a Arc like way somehow.
I was happy when you has stopped syncing the tabs. When I use a multi-monitor set up — one for coding, one for Google/ChatGPT — I would constantly get confused what was I working on and where. Maybe that's a good thing but I'd edit something in this window and it would show up separately in the second window. It did irritate me a lot. I wonder why not have a simple toggle to choose? "Sync tabs between windows — yes or no?"
I'm definitely in the camp of wanting the tabs to sync between windows, in part because I really want them to sync between devices. If I move from my MacBook Air to my iMac, I want to see the same tabs—pinned and Today.
I do feel that there's more that can be done in this area. Like some others, I use multiple monitors, and Arc has some issues there (bugs with Command-Option-N not getting keyboard focus depending on which screen you're on, what's happening in Arc, etc). I use Little Arc heavily, but Little Arc windows are just too ephemeral—a click in my email app takes over whatever was there if I'd moved something to the other screen so I could refer to it while writing. And yes, I do use Split View, but that can't extend across desktops in a reliable way, so a second window is necessary.
I find dragging out a second window to be helpful but awkward, since it's always the same size as my main (very large) window, which is always too big for a secondary reference window. So resizing is a requirement there.
Personally, I'm disappointed in this reversion but I understand that both states are less than ideal.
This was a huge pain point for me with Google Meet where I would have multiple windows open, while in a meeting.
I would see a call in my non-active meet window, thinking that it's a separate set of tab state and close it only to be disconnected from the call.
Worse yet is Confluence where I might be editing in one page while referencing some information in another window. I'll accidentally open the edit tab in another window which starts a second session in the multiplayer editor. That or close a tab in a secondary window which then closes my exisiting edits in my primary window
I'm not sure I understand how having shared tabs is more similar to existing browsers. Isn't this breaking away from everyone's existing mental models? I mean, syncing between mobile and desktop I get but not between windows. Perhaps I'm misremembering something after having used Arc for more than a year now.
Anyway, I recall that this made Arc miserable to use (like 1000 little cuts that aren't enough to make you leave) so I sort of dread a return back and also don't understand why this can't be a toggle. I suppose because more toggles means more surface area for issues to arise.
That said, maybe my workflow is just plain wrong and I need to rethink it. I probably would like to use just one window except when cross-referencing a lot of information where you can only get so far with split view.
Thanks for the considered update and sharing the product thinking though!
If today tabs are going to be sync, their content needs to stay synced just like the pinned tabs. Otherwise it's just a recipe for disaster
While I understand the intent might have been to provide a seamless experience, this feature has been significantly impeding my productivity. Often, I find myself accidentally closing a tab in one window, only to realize that it was a tab I intended to keep open in another. The lag that occurs due to this syncing further slows down my work.
One of the primary advantages of having independent windows is the ability to manage separate tasks or projects. The current synchronization defeats that purpose. If the tabs in both windows mirror each other, it diminishes the very essence of what makes two windows beneficial.
Would't it be more feasible to instead introduce a setting to either use synchronisation or disable it?
I genuinely appreciate the innovative features your team consistently introduces to enhance user experience. However, I believe reconsidering this particular feature would be in the best interest of users seeking efficient multitasking capabilities.
I sent a long feedback to Arc about the Tab Syncing. Tab Syncing breaks the browser for me, as it adds clutter and makes tabs really difficult to find.
It creates spaces (window) in spaces (Space) in spaces (tabs), and makes everything really confusing. The single "synced" tab might have just as many states as you have windows open. I mainly use 3-4 windows with different tab sets, but now as all the windows look the same, tabs might not even fit in the tab bar for quick navigating. Quick navigation and clarity is key here.
Let's take an example of having 3 displays with 3 Arc windows open and just googling something. It creates the Google tab in every window. Then if I need that information to stay on the window I originally googled it in, I don't need to access it from another window because it's already open.
Yes, I know, I could use spaces for every window, but as I open and close windows every now and then, changing the space after opening would be really cumbersome. I like to think that windows are spaces itself.
I understand Arc wants to differentiate from other browsers, but in my opinion it's different enough even without the Tab Syncing. I'm hoping this could be an option, but understand that it adds complexity in development. But still...
The solution is Little Arc. But it is too volatile when you're limited to one. Too many tabs get lost due to forcefully integrating all newcomers into a single 'Little' box.
Surely, when something is 'Little', you can hold many of them.
> But doesn't this mean too many windows?
No, because they're not full-fledged windows. They're floating tabs.
Each one is connected to the Space that summoned it, sitting in the Today tabs section.
Little Arc's "Open in [Space]" becomes "Move to..." when you want to Pin it or change Spaces.
Little Arc should then follow the Space's colour. Even now, it's always associated with a Space anyway, but hides this fact.
Because Little Arc was never this 'neutral' ground like a No Man's Zone, but it feels like it's trying to be.
It ends up acting like the one overzealous guard at the city-gates who processes way more entrants than he can handle, and drops the ball a lot.
Let there be multiplicity of Little Arcs for every Space, and account for them in Today's tabs, and maybe it reduces the need for producing another blank-slate Arc, aka. an entire temporary city outside the walls.
Thanks for reverting the change. I think both windowing approaches can work but they require changes to help alleviate the tradeoffs. These tradeoffs being made are absolutely spot on with my Arc experience.
Something small that could help make the synced tabs better (besides the suggested improvements): allow folders in the "Today" section and do not sync their open/close state across windows. This can help alleviate some of the clutter that can occur with the synced tabs.
Holly molly! I've lost so many tabs I guess that in two occurrences. I've felt very very bad about it. But I'm very glad and relieved that it wasn't an specific misusage by me and that you guys have been looking at it. Thanks for the transparency and keep up the good work! 😄
Another vote for "Please make this a toggle!" 🙏 The synced-tabs version is completely unusable for me.
Nooo, I hate having the same tabs opened on every single windows, it's one of the things I hate the most in ARC, and I use it 12h a day every days. I used to have one "purpose" by window, but now it's not possible anymore because it's now just a big mess with all my tabs all around. What's even the point of having multiple windows then? Wait, what's the point of having multiple desktops on mac then? PRODUCTIVITY FFS. They removed the ability to create a "New Blank Window" and now they remove the use of having multiple windows altogether. wtf? Do I really have to go back on Chrome just for that? I've been using ARC for almost a year now, and the more time passes, the more they remove the features that made me use ARC in the first place. Sad to see.
One more thing. Don't remove features while expecting users to use other features that fulfils the need "better" in your opinion when those are hidden from him. You cannot expect users to use ARC "correctly" the way you designed it just because you want it, that's not how UX works. Users should not need to read a guide or watch a 30minutes video on how the browser works. The interface should speak by itself and make the user use what's the best for him because it's designed this way, not the opposite. And remember that ppl will report you the things they don't like, not the opposite. So wait for the ppl that don't like this revert to be the majority now. Are you gonna reverse it again and again and again? Or will you think like designers and allow users to decide in the settings? Both versions are developed, both works, and both are liked and hated by different users. Once you introduced them both, you split the community between the ones that like and depend on it and the others. It's your fault and your responsibility to find a fix, not choose a side.
Be inclusive, like the "One browser to rule them all" should be.